Well, little did we realise when we first started to bring this matter to the attention of our loyal bloggies et al that this story would seem as if it would make it on to the front page of The Irish Catholic newspaper here in Ireland.Or so we have been advised in an email dated 3rd March from one Michael Kelly, Deputy Editor of aforementioned tabloid.
No doubt The Irish Catholic will do the following:
* name cleric(s) which will have been given to them by Hayes & Finch;
* state that cleric(s) were rude to Hayes & Finch staff;
* claim that Mr Mann of Hayes & Finch was not given an opportunity to give his side of the matter to cleric(s) and so would be only too glad to clarify the matter through The Irish Catholic;
* state perhaps that Hayes & Finch were badly treated or not treated fairly in attempting to resolve the issue(s);
* claim that 'threatening' and 'abusive' behaviour was used.
Now, once that has been done by The Irish Catholic, we still may not get the response that is so eagerly sought by those who actually don't care for sensationalism - why is there such a marked difference in pricing of euro and sterling by Hayes & Finch?
Hereunder, contrary to that which The Irish Catholic may well print, is the TRUTH of the matter, and we can verify such by virtue of the noted recordings of clergy concerned, our being in a position to listen as a silent 3rd party to some of these calls and the emails we have received from so many other clergy in Ireland - North and South!!!
We first brought this matter into this domain on February 9th in a posting entitled Hayes & Finch - Clerical Rip-Off!! which served to highlight, if nothing else, the excessive overcharging by clerical outfitters in general and Hayes and Finch in particular as they were found to be doing so in a most excessive fashion.
It was highlighted for the benefit of those not resident this side of the world how there are different currencies, even on the island of Ireland and indeed how such differences in the currencies were cause for shoppers in the Republic of Ireland to head North for better prices and even better rate of exchange.
On February 9th, we carried out a price survey on foot of then 11 queries/complaints/concerns in relation to such pricing and especially in relation to Hayes and Finch and found that on their website, the pricing was of great concern. The rate on a clerical shirt in sterling £ was £27.40 which was translated into a euro rate of €47.40 but the international rate of exchange would have put the price at €31.39 which then raised the question of where the justification of the difference of €9.08 could possibly be.
Today, we decided to do the same thing with the conversion rates on both the Hayes and Finch site and also international rates and the same story with Hayes and Finch but on international rates of £1 = €1.12 the cost of those shirts was now €30.84 which is a minimal difference in rate etc on the international rates.
So, it raises the same issue again - why are Hayes and Finch using an exchange rate of £1 = €1.42?
Well, this is what brought the matter to such attention that the inflow of comments from clergy was overwhelming and unlike the Irish Catholic and Hayes & Finch, we will not betray the identity of such clergy. One of their many comments was published on the 10th of February which read as follows:
I read your post with great interest as I have also purchased some goods from UK outfitters and was curious to see what in fact they had charged me in € as compared to their UK sterling price.
Fortunately, the price I paid was the equivalent of the current exchange rate at that time.
Since I was purchasing the goods in £, my credit card was charged in that currency and I was debited the equivalent in € based on the stated rate (as printed on my statement).
After looking at the advertised prices on some liturgical suppliers' website, I could only find two who show both currencies (fadumont.co.uk and shinglers.net).
Both are using todays rate of £1.00=€1.14. Hayes and Finch are using a rate of £1.00=€1.42.
In the end, they are charging a whopping 24.5% more to their Irish customers as compared to UK customers!
I don't think all UK companies use operating practices as what Hayes and Finch has done.
Their lack of explanation (H&F) to this matter only confirms your concerns.
An order was placed with Hayes & Finch in relation to getting 5 of these shirts through the North of Ireland and thereby reduce possible costings for cleric(s) and parish(es) alike, but the experience of a clerical colleague was well highlighted in same aforementioned posting Hayes & Finch - Clerical Rip-Off!!! - Update.
Now, not only was the order being challenged, but the cleric was being lied to, then being called a liar himself and then the ludicrous suggestion from Ms Colette MANNING that the cleric would still have to pay the Euro price even though the goods were being sent to a Sterling outlet!!
On 2nd March we received an email from The Irish Catholic in the person of Michael Kelly who stated the following, and we quote directly from aforementioned email....
'It really is a terrible example of taking advantage. I wonder if one had the goods delivered to Northern Ireland would one be charged the same as for delivery in Britain?'
(unquote)
We, and from the comments passed through here in CW, were not overly concerned with the cost of postage but rather the overall issue of how the prices of exchange were so wildly out of reason and justification.
Mr John MANN, GM of Hayes & Finch was contacted pursuant to his attempts to make contact with a cleric in relation to a email he sent to one particular cleric on 2nd March which was nothing short of blackmail in the least....and hereunder is the email in near totality as certain names are left out to protect the right to privacy of others...
We have not, at this stage, accepted an order...for the shirts that we understand you have ordered...If you will remove the two web log posts, the links to which you emailed to me, and undertake not to make further posts denigrating Hayes & Finch Limited and our staff, then we will re-open our discussions with...a view to getting the goods despatched to them today.
(unquote)
Mr MANN was asked why he had deemed it necessary to effectively hold to ransom 5 clerical shirts when there was no issue with the shirts but rather the way his staff member had treated a cleric by referring to him as a liar which he then stated was an internal matter and none of the concerned clerics business. So in effect she may have slandered you Father, but I am not going to tell you how she is going to be dealt with!! Instills confidence does it not?
Then, Mr MANN was asked the question which was instrumental to this issue - why such a difference in euro and sterling rates considering the international rates were showing that Hayes and Finch were effectively overcharging by a minimum of €9?
He would go silent for at least 10 seconds and the question would be repeated but he would still remain silent and when asked why he was not replying, Mr MANN would say that he was not been given the opportunity to respond!!!
The call lasted just under 10 minutes and the total time of asking the question of Mr MANN ran to less than 4 minutes which leaves just about 6 minutes of silence to respond...and he has the brass neck to claim he was not given the opportunity to respond!!!
When he was advised that he was given more than plenty of time to respond, he promptly hung up and despite repeated calls in an attempt to get the matter resolved, being again lied to by staff and effectively being sent from pillar to post, we were anonymously advised that Mr MANN had instructed that all calls were to be 'answered with attitude', ignored and then terminated so as to be in a position to claim that staff were being harassed and abused on the phone.
Well, we have that in writing via email from an employee private email and managed to speak to them in confidence to verify the claims in the email, and we are happy to have done so.
It was also indicated to us that private correspondence between at least one cleric and Mr MANN was provided to The Irish Catholic in an attempt to undermine the clergy concerned, and we also have seen the written verification of this allegation.
The cleric decided that due to what has transpired, legal involvement is necessary and we shall comment thus far and no further on that particular clerics issues with Hayes & Finch.
However, Mr MANN decided, according to an email from Mr Kelly of The Irish Catholic, dated 3rd March, and again we quote for your benefit:
'I got a lengthy response from John Mann this morning via email...and a prolonged phone call. We're running the whole thing as a front page story in The Irish Catholic this Thursday.'
(unquote)
On foot of that email, we notified ALL clergy who had been in touch with us through CW in relation to this matter, and are aware that at least one of them made a call to Mr KELLY on his mobile phone on Tuesday night (after 11pm) and was passed to his answering machine where he asked that Mr KELLY return the call.
At time of writing this posting, Mr KELLY has failed to do so, but this is nothing new considering the previously commented upon actions and behaviour of The Irish Catholic in relation to other matters, therefore the article as it appears in this tabloid is not balanced and if it claims it is so, then its interaction with Hayes and Finch has rubbed off - ie. the incapacity to tell the truth which we here in CW will continue to practice.
We would certainly have wished for Mr MANN to respond to us here, or through the cleric(s) concerned to justify the extortionate differences in prices despite exchange rates without having someones character slandered or being blackmailed but it was not to be...by Mr MANN's own hand and attitude.
We would have wished for The Irish Catholic to return the call(s) of clergy who are to be praised for stepping forward after our advising them of the story going public to speak to Mr KELLY but to have been snubbed.
Mr KELLY will also no doubt claim in the article, as he did in an email to us on March 2nd, that he spoke to a few priests, and wished to speak to others and he would
'respect your absolute right to privacy and confidentiality.' (unquote)
We believe in the very same thing Mr KELLY, and if nothing else, the article you intend to print should bear in mind the same words you espoused to us via aforementioned email!!
It will be interesting to note if the answer will actually be provided to us as to why Hayes & Finch charge such different rates when others (noted hereunder) can do so at far realistic rates or will this rumble on and on?
Another question would be how much of an advertising rate Hayes & Finch will get in return for providing such private and internal communications to a 3rd party so as to further slander persons with genuine concerns of prices on goods?
Tomorrow will tell, but it does not mean it will be balanced, honest and indeed adherent to the code of journalism which questionably The Irish Catholic newspaper is NOT signed up to as confirmed in writing to us here by The Press Council of Ireland and The Press Ombudsman of Ireland.
Therefore The Irish Catholic can never claim to be factual and honest in its presentation of issues so technically it is gutter press, but in case they change their minds, for their benefit is the Press Council Of Ireland Code Of Practice which they may wish to peruse.
In relation to the matter at hand, we decided to do further research in relation to the costing of clerical shirts amongst 3 companies based in the UK and the results are as follows:
* * * * *
You can read the following information as follows - sterling price on company site, translated into same company on their respective website and final price is the translation of the £ into € via the international rateseg: H&F charge £27.40 onsite, traslated into €40.47 onsite and international exchange would translate the £27.40 into €30.84 (difference per shirt of €9.63!!)
Hayes & Finch
£27.40 (own site) €40.47 (does not indicate VAT)* €30.84**
F.A. Dumont
£26.14 (own site) €34.27 (own site incl VAT@15%) €33.70**
Shinglers
£45.40 (own site) €50.82 (VAT not indicated) €50.99**
* this is the £1 = €1.42 rate of H&F
** this is the current international rate of £1 = €1.12
Websites Of Interest
They have been recommended to us by others who have had dealings with them and found them to be very honest, upfront, reliable and competitive!!
Get back to us and continue to let us know of your experiences and costings, value for money etc with them and we will be only too happy to publish here!!!
Happy shopping!!
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Disclaimer
No responsibility or liability shall attach itself to either myself or to the blogspot ‘Clerical Whispers’ for any or all of the articles placed here.
The placing of an article hereupon does not necessarily imply that I agree or accept the contents of the article as being necessarily factual in theology, dogma or otherwise.
Sotto Voce
(Source: SV/PVT)